I’m Not A Feminist

Auguste Rodin: Kneeling Woman, c. 1900–1908

Auguste Rodin: Kneeling Woman, c. 1900–1908 (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Alright.  So, I think I’m probably going to piss some people off today.  But I’m okay with it.  Shit happens.  And this is a bit fragmented.  And ranty.  I tried to pull it all together, but I’m not sure I actually did.  Deal with it.

I’ve not a feminist.  Never, even in my pink-and-blue-hair-girlfriend-hand-holding-Silvia-Plath days, considered myself a feminist.  Men and women…  well, we aren’t equal.  And maybe we shouldn’t be treated as such.  I don’t want to get a job that some else is better qualified for, just because he had a cock and I’ve got a cunt.  And don’t say it doesn’t happen.  It does.  All the time.  And I don’t want to be expected to do what a man does (even though I can run a chain saw, change a tire, shoot and gut a deer, and down a fifth of whiskey with no problem).  And I definitely don’t want a man that is “in touch with his feminine side.”  Nope, sorry.  If you like to get manicures and your cuticles cared for, sorry buddy, but you are not the guy for me.

I think women’s lib fucked a lot of shit up.  A lot.  100 years ago…  We knew our place.  We knew our role.  And so did our men.  We found satisfaction in having a clean house and dinner ready.  He worked hard and expected to be taken care of when he got home.  Damn fucking right.  Simple. Clear cut.  Everyone had a job, a duty, and they knew what it was.  There was no middle ground, no grey area.   You do what is expected of you, I’ll do what is expected of me, and at the end of the day, we crawl into bed together and fuck like bunnies.

And you know what, even as I say this, I’m not living it.  I’m the fucking bread-winner in my family.  I’m the one who makes the most money.  I’m the one who carries the insurance.  I’m the one who pays the bills.  I’m the one who has always held a job.  I’m the one responsible.  But I don’t want to be this.  I’d love to be barefoot and pregnant.  I’d love to cook dinner, do the laundry, take care of the kids.  I’d love to garden and can vegetables (which I still do, but not to the extent that I would like), raise chickens, and butcher pigs.  But the fact is, that’s not my life.  And I’m okay with that.  But I think I’d be more content if it was.  And I know I’m not the only chick out there in this position.

And we, as women, are given so many mixed messages.  Societal pressures.  We are told to be “strong,” “independent.”  We are told that we can do whatever we want.  Be whoever we want to be.  But then, in the same breath, we have all these pressures exerted on us to be feminine.  To be pretty.  To put on make up and spend hours in the bathroom.  To have our nails done.  Our eyebrows waxed.  We are encouraged to be “girly-girls.”  To be sexy and coy and seductive.  And we can be all this things.  I am all this things (except maybe coy…  I’m to straight up for that I think).  I like to feel pretty.  I wear make-up almost everyday.  I do my hair (sometimes).  But I am independent.  Strong.  But, this dichotomy…  sometimes it gets to me.  Sometimes I find myself being pulled in two different directions, not knowing where I stand.  Or, perhaps to phrase it better, I don’t know where society wants me to stand, as it seems in conflict with where I want to be (and, btw, in case you were wondering, I say fuck society).

And, even worse, where does this leave our men?  There was a point, not that long ago, that, for multiple reasons, M quit his job.  I was making more than enough to support us, so he stayed home with the kids.  Mr. Mom.  He cooked, he cleaned.  And while he didn’t complain, M, well, he’s a “manly man” if you know what I mean.  He wears work boots and Carhart’s.  He cuts wood by hand.  He’s always got a 5 o’clock shadow.  What did this do to him?  His pride?  His ego?  His expectations of himself?  This is not what he was told should happen, but it did.  And although he never once said a word about it, I witnessed how it impacted him.  Not being the one to support the family.  Not earning a paycheck.  Changing dirty diapers and doing laundry.  I could see how it fucked with his head.  How it changed his behaviors.  And I wasn’t okay with it.  And, believe me, I’ll never ask him to do it again.

And you know what, I think this maybe one of the reasons I am so drawn to submission and the D/s lifestyle.  Because that is what I want.  That is what I crave.  Let me take care of you at home.  Let me listen to you.  Or expect punishment when I displease you.  Let me hand over the control that I carry everyday, the responsibilities, and let me just take care of you.  Please you.  Because, I know, that you will take care of me.  You will provide.  Let me get you your beer when you come home.  Let me rub your shoulders.  Let me serve you.  Let me suck your cock every night.  I’m okay with that.  I desire that.

I don’t want to be the man.  I don’t want to wear the pants.  I want to be naked.  Barefoot.  Sub-servant.  Sometimes I want to be objectified.  Sometimes I want to be used.  Sometimes I want you to hold me down and fuck the living shit out of me just because you can.  Sometimes I am a dirty fucking slut.  Sometimes I am a naughty little girl.  And you know what, I want you to tell me that.  Whisper it in my ear as you fuck me from behind.  Claim me.  Hard.  And don’t apologize for it.  Don’t second guess it.  You are the man, and it’s time to fucking act like it.

And fuck anyone who says differently.  Fuck anyone who says that it is “against what we fought for” when I get my hair pulled, when I get my ass smacked, when I sit at his feet.  Fuck that.  Because this is where I was meant to be.  This is where I feel right.

(And, don’t get me wrong.  I’m not saying that everything that has occurred is bad.  It’s not.  Fuck.  Idk.  I’m just saying, me, I’m not a feminist).

And, random songs that has nothing to do with anything tonight (except maybe the talk of manly men), but simply the fact that I am on a Jason Aldean kick…

Dirt Road Anthem

My Kinda Party

62 responses to “I’m Not A Feminist

  1. Fuck, LSaM. Fuck, Fuck, Fuck. Yes. Absolutely yes. *sigh* You are speaking my language.

  2. Issues like this are so confusing because it’s so difficult to know what we Really want versus what we Think we should want. I’m not much of a feminist either. I don’t work. I feel sort of like a failure because of it and at the same time I think, “Fuck that Dawn! Just be who you are. Period.”

    I agree that men and women are in no way equal. Complimentary at best.

    Bisous,
    Dawn

    • Thanks for sharing your thoughts Dawn. And, to me, one of the big problems is the “want” compared to the “need.” People don’t always understand that. And, babe, never feel like a failure for being you, for taking care of you. That’s bullshit.

  3. eroticexploration

    You have expressed your feelings and your position honestly, which I respect, even when my own viewpoint is very different. I AM a feminist, but I find the term very tricky, because it means something different to everyone. I believe that men and women are different in many ways, but equal – because equality means to me only that they are of the same value, not that they are the same. Who would want everyone to be the same anyway – how dull!!!! To me, the most we can ask for in life is choice – because what I feel you are overlooking is that you DO HAVE THE CHOICE to be whoever you want to be, and to live life as you wish. No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to work. You are deciding to do so, for many valid reasons I am sure but nonetheless the choice is yours. I love keeping my house clean, looking after my children, cooking, gardening, and fucking my husband – but I would go mad if I didn’t have the job that I love too. In previous centuries this choice would not have been available to me, and I would have been a very, very unhappy woman.

    You write ‘I don’t want to get a job that some else is better qualified for, just because he had a cock and I’ve got a cunt.’ I agree with you completely, but I feel you are missing the point, which is that for a very, very, very long time it has been the other way around – women didn’t get the job simply because they were women – and in many places it still is. ‘Affirmative action’ is only ever put in place to try and balance out the inherent disadvantage that already exists. In my ideal world, the best qualified person should always get the job, and sex simply shouldn’t an issue.

    Choice is difficult, but it is to be celebrated, because it gives you the freedom to decide who you want to be and how you want to live.

    P.s. been exploring your archives and LOVING your blog!!!!

    • Welcome ee, and, first and foremost, thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter!

      As far as equality is concerned, as you described it, I’m going to call that justice and base my opinions in line with John Rawls’ Theory of Justice and his Veil of Ignorance. And as far as choices are concerned, well, you are right, we all have choices. But if I didn’t work, my family would be homeless (ha! we already are!!), there wouldn’t be food on the table, blah blah blah. But correct, my choice. But you are missing my point. You said, “I would go mad if I didn’t have the job I love… In previous centuries… I would have been a very, very unhappy woman.” Chances are no, you wouldn’t have. Because you never would have had the expectation that you could have worked, should have worked. Your expectations would have been completely different and the life you have today would never have even crossed your mind. And, if suggested, most would have been appauled at the idea.

      And understand the “why” behind affirmative action,” I do. But I still don’t agree. And it is never, “only ever put in place…” Because what it does is allow for less qualified people… well, I really don’t want to have this argument. I’m just not a believer in affirmative action. I understand the principle. I understand the reasoning. I just don’t agree with it. I think balance would have naturally occurred, over time, and that these kind of practices actually set the bar back a little, instead of moving it forward…

      And thank you ee, for commenting. I enjoyed the banter. And I am SO glad you are enjoying LSAM!

  4. I feel like you’re talking about two different things here. On the one hand you’re dissatisfied with the mixed messages society sends us as to our roles in our lives; on the other, you believe that if you resorted to older societal ideals (pre-feminism) you would find relief from this confusion. Neither issue is really an attack on feminism in my opinion; just admitting you’re not crazy about the state of affairs doesn’t make you a non-feminist.

    A feminist, by definition, means you believe in equal rights for women and that – if so inclined – we should have identical opportunities to men. So you may not be strong as an ox, but another woman may be and she should have the right to utilize that skill and be rewarded for it. It’s not about shutting out qualified individuals.

    First Wave Feminism fought for the acknowledgement women weren’t property or second class citizens, and were capable of what all men could do, a basic human right.

    Second Wave – think Gloria Steinem – was all about eliminating expectations and moving out of the house into the workplace. I think our foremothers were short sighted here because they simultaneously devalued womem’s work in their blind ambition to have access to a man’s world.

    Which brings is to Third Wave Feminism, what we see today. A movement which understands men and women are not identical and have different strengths. We’re complimentary, like Dawn said, most of the time. We’d like to think we have a choice in life, and for the most part we do (we’re allowed to leave the house alone now, for ex), but it feels more restrictive than that when you look at the bigger picture.

    The legacy of Second Wave Feminism is that we do everything a man does PLUS what women have always done. Women’s work never got the shine on it so men have been slow to take equal domain over it as we have theirs. So we’re exhausted. And confused.

    And the bedroom is the last refuge where we can say, “I’M NOT IN CONTROL. YOU FUCKING DO IT.” And a man can slip into his affirmed role, too, and it is glorious, safe, understood.

    Holy shit, this is long. So sorry. Having been a SAHM (stay at home mom) I struggled with all of this. Despite not earning a paycheck I ran our entire life and I was exhausted, yet felt guilty for not going more due to pressure to perform and achieve. I wanted nothing more than to be taken care of in bed so I could find some relief. But I’m definitely a feminist. I just don’t want to be responsible for everything constantly and I want the right to decide what my life looks like.

    • Hy, babe, I feel like I am talking about 37.8 different things here! Let me see if I can clarify my thoughts to your response… I do NOT think that we should have identical opportunities as men. Because we are not identical. Because there are innate things that make us different. I think true “equality” is a bunch of fucking bullshit.

      As far as the waves of feminism goes, I tried to verbalize this in the post, but couldn’t seem to find the words. I am the first generation of women who were raised by the women who were raised by the women who fought for those rights. “exhausted and confused” you hit it right there Hy. And, you are right. Now our responsibilities are twofold. We’ve got the “women’s” work, and now the “mans work” too.

      What it comes down to, for me, is that the simple life would have been easier. We, both men and women, knew our roles. We knew what to do. We had been doing it for thousands of years. And the dynamics were there. The natural power exchange was life. Now, we’ve gone and fucked it all up.

  5. One thing I have leaned from the feminists is that when a subject like this this comes up, I find something to do in another room.

  6. What it comes down to, for me, is that the simple life would have been easier. We, both men and women, knew our roles. We knew what to do. We had been doing it for thousands of years. And the dynamics were there. The natural power exchange was life. Now, we’ve gone and fucked it all up.

    There’s an actual kink community that’s commonly called “50’s Household,” which centers around an imaginary idea of what 50’s households were like.

    The thing is, many of the people interested in that kink actually claim that everything would be better if everyone shared their kink.

    Imagine if Civil War re-enactors went around saying that everybody would be better off if women wore hoop skirts and fields were tilled with a plough hitched to a donkey.

    Most of us, men and women, wouldn’t be better off if we went back 150 years, 100 years, or even 50 years. Anybody who thinks the good old days were so good has a rose-tinted rearview mirror.

    You might not want to identify as a feminist, but the fact that you have the freedom to choose a particular sexual expression and write about it is a direct result of feminism.

    • Lily, I get what you’re saying, and I’m not glorifying anything. Fuck, had I live 100 years ago, even 50, I’d be dead. And blind. So, I’m not glorfying the past. What I’m saying is the power dynamic between a man and a woman, it was more clear cut. Roles were defined. People knew their places, what was expected. And there was shitty stuff. I’ll never deny that. And I am grateful to have been born when I was, in a world where I can say whatever the fuck I want and walk away from a man who beats me. But the fact remains, in completely general terms, the contentment level was higher. People did not want as much. They did weren’t as depressed. Life was life and you fucking dealt with it. Again, what I was focused on was the natural power dynamic that occured. That, now, today, is missing from most relationships.

      • But the fact remains, in completely general terms, the contentment level was higher.

        The thing is, this isn’t true. There’s an excellent book, entitled “The Way We Never Were” that takes a look at the realities of earlier eras vs. the nostalgia we have about them. Suicide rates, for example, were much higher among white, married, middle class people in the 50’s.

        Let’s go back for a minute to people who enjoy “50’s Household” style kink. The woman fixes the guy dinner, fetches his slippers, dresses in an ultra-girly manner, and that turns them on, which they use to have hot kinky sex.

        But if you want to go back there for real — well, LSAM, kiss the flogger goodbye. Oh, and your orgasms, too. Many medical professionals of that era believed that female orgasm was a myth — and even people who believed it existed didn’t think it was important. Kinsey, who was working in the 50’s, found that only half of all women who had sex with men had ever had an orgasm, with or without a partner.

        It’s interesting that you bring up Rawls’ “veil of ignorance” theory. Rawls uses it as a way to think about how good (or bad) a society is. From behind the veil, you can see the details of the society, but you can’t see what place you’d have in it. Basically, it encourages you to judge a society based on the condition of its least powerful members. And on that front, well, I don’t have to tell you that the 50’s scenery isn’t so good: blacks are drinking from separate fountains and gays are being beaten and jailed. Now you might say, “but I don’t want that part!” But ask yourself, a society in which Men Must Be Men and Women Must Be Women, how’s that going to work for a gay people? It turns out you really can’t have Ozzie and Harriet without the Stonewall riots (or black domestic servants, for that matter). That romantic “Men were men and women were women” era wasn’t so happy when you look at the actual facts, and it depended on some extremely unhappy stuff indeed to exist at all.

        By all means, if you want to engage in “50’s household” style kink — go for it! One of the primary benefits of our era is greater freedom of sexual expression. “50’s household” is particularly fun for people who enjoy what Judith Butler called “gender splendor” — that is, reveling in and immersing yourself in all the “stuff” of your gender, whether that’s fedoras and bow ties or poodle skirts and vintage lingerie.

        Just don’t mistake the fun and joy you both may take in that for any historical reality, or as something that is a plan for a better world.

        • Lily… I’m not saying the 50s were great, and I don’t want to go back there (I’m not even sure how we got on the topic of the 1950s…). What I’m talking about is the power dynamic that exsisted, then and before. What I’m saying is that women’s lib… It fucked that up. Period. End. There were roles, they were defined.

          And the percentages of women who orgasm from sex… just about the same now. Just sayin’.

      • And Lily, in response to Rawls… Yes, his Theory of Justice doesn’t take into consideration arbitary traits of specific individuals… That is one of the main reasons it is the justice theory that I learn towards (fyi… philosophy degree, focus on neurophilosophy and social and political, one of the reasons I don’t allow political talk at LSAM). Some people are always going to excell at certain things. Some people will always suck at certain things. Judgements, rewards, etc… should be based on these abilities, not on some over-arching principle (such as AA) which ends up discriminating against those who actually deserve them. AA is just as much a violation of rights as segration is.

  7. This is a topic which really confuses me because I don’t know at all where I am standing there. I wouldn’t call myself a feminist, nevertheless I am a full time working single parent, living a life without being dependent on any man and have had my time where I’ve used men as a tool/toy to satisfy my own needs.

    Also, I don’t live my feminine side very much (terms of girly clothes, make up, etc. – which I think is a pity so I am trying to take better care of my body and my appearance, especially since I am getting older. It’s not that much a question to please someone else, but to treat myself and my body as someone/something worth caring for.

    On the other side, I am all into submission, I love a strong man at my side who tells me what to do (not only sexually), and I wouldn’t mind giving up my independent life for the right man.

    For me, the question of female liberation never came up. I just did my thing, sometimes because I had to, sometimes because I have chosen to, and I never felt the need to really fight for my place in a relationship, at work, or in life.

    And maybe the fight for women’s liberation in earlier decades has made this possible. So I am grateful that I HAVE the choice today.

    • Z…

      I love a strong man at my side who tells me what to do (not only sexually), and I wouldn’t mind giving up my independent life for the right man.

      I’m 100% with you on this one babe. 100%!

  8. I’m not so good at making those good choice so here goes.

    I work within mandated affirmative action. Its about percentages not people or abilities. I also work in a male dominated enviroment. Physically demanding enviroment 24 x7 isolated locations the weak don’t florish male or female. The problem is when people dont meet the min standard or get assistance to do so and get the job over someone who can do the job When someone that can do the job is avalible and didnt get it because they don’t meet the flavor du jour.
    I depend on these people for my safety and provide medical assistance when they get hurt. I want to be surrounded by the best not the barely just good enough.

    Feminism. It did its thing just like unions did for coal miners and factory workers. Laws have changed and there will always be someone willing to challenge the inequalities in court. Now goverment is involved in union breaking through legislation. They are vilified as the reasons for high cost of goods and poor economic times. Men are losing jobs to women based on affirmitive action. Do you think anyone wins from that, the only thing that affirms is more strife between the sexes.
    Feminism is forced equality it will always be a life of lies. Women with out the skills to florish will take up the banner and fail, who does that serve.
    Freedom to choose would be a better path towards equality. Choose to try, fail just like I have to the chance to do. I choose to use the abilities I have to find a path for myself I will never fly a jet, perform surgery or be a cosmotologist, but I am not suited for anyone of those jobs. I would fail and so I should.
    We have become a society of just good enough’s and that is not good enough.
    I applaud the wonderful strong women who can “make it” in a mans world but when they can’t they are doing a disservice to all those that will try to follow.
    When I hear someone talking fervently about feminsim I can only think of fanticism. Take your jihaid elsewhere. I would rather talk to someone who is not lead by their beliefs but leads by example. Do as you say not say what I should do. Then you will have my respect as an equal but not the same.

    Cruel.

    • @Cruel… Great analogy, comparing it with unions. It served a purpose. Not get the fuck over it. And as far as affirmative action — I used to work at a placement facility for inner city boys. Kids who were carrying guns before they were fucking girls, selling herion instead of studying for the SATs, and getting blow jobs for crack at 14. Most were violent, and we only used physical restraints (what I wouldn’t have given for some Haldol or Thorazine at times). But, we too, had to have a specific percentage of female staff. And, let me tell you, most were incompetent. I’m not a big girl. I’m not overly strong (cross-fit can only do so much), but I can hold my own. I’ve made a 200 18 year old gang member cry from a restraint. I learned, and I learned well (most of it is about leverage, not strength). Anyway, so many of the girls that worked there, they are scared. Of the kids, of the restraints. And their fear fucks things up. It causes people to get hurt. I’ve seen to many people get hurt, due to a female staff that was too afraid to jump in and assist. I’ve gotten punched in the face because of that. So, I completely agree… Some jobs, some people can’t do. Period end. In a place like that, I want to work with people that I know have my back, no matter what.

      “A society of good enoughs.” This is so fucking true. At the school district where I used to live, everyone who “tried out” for a sports team, made it. No one got cut. What the fuck are we teaching kids!?! We are teaching them that “good enough” is alright. No need to excell. No need to try harder. Just get by.

      WTF.

  9. Gillian Colbert

    I personally think the entire point is being missed all together. Feminism is about equal rights to self-determination not equal rights to be a breadwinner. Everything else is bullshit and, babe, you know my feelings on this by now. My posts the Dominant Submissive and Betraying the Sisterhood said it all.

    I believe firmly in equal pay for equal work because that is fair. I was the lowest paid VP and one of only two women. All the men made at least 25% more than I did despite the fact that I was higher performing than them all. I believe that the purpose of affirmative action is to level the playing field and it is being abused. The simple reality is that there is not equal opportunity out there. I was only able to become a VP because of Affirmative Action. I was the highest performing and most successful VP in my company. But, unlike what Cruel does, no one was reliant on my ability to perform physical tasks in a danger zone.

    Feminism was never supposed to be about getting jobs it was about the right to self-determination whatever that meant. Feminism dictates that if you want to be barefoot and pregnant then you should be applauded, but if you want to work you should be equally applauded.

    The Qu’ran, one of the oldest books out there, is a feminist book. It allows women to choose and dictate the course of their own lives.

    I too believe there are certain gender roles, I think we all need to be who we are though some men are submissive, some are not. Some women are dominant, some are not. It has to be about being true to your heart.

    And, babe, in my book, you are a feminist, in the truest sense, we both are, because we advocate being true to yourself and doing what works individually, whatever that mean.

    The rest are the false-feminists.

    Love you,

    GC

    • eroticexploration

      Oh Gillian, WELL SAID (*round of applause*)! I can’t find a single thing in what you’ve written that I disagree with in any way.

      Banter at its best – with a group of intelligent and articulate people.

    • Okay, this one’s going to piss everyone off too… But here I go. Pay differences. The fact of the matter is, I’m going to cost the company more money, on average, than a man. There is a huge chance, if you hire a young woman, that she is going to have children. That means a minimum of 6 weeks off after every child. A MINIMUM. Many take more. Then, in most cases, not all, it is more likely that the woman is going to take the time off when the kids are sick, when there are doctor’s appointments, school activities, etc. And that’s the fact of the matter. So, it is what it is. From a financial perspective, it is more costly, with lower work production, over long periods of time, to hire women.

      For example, I’ve got three kids. I took the minimum off work when they were born, except for the last one, I stopped working 1 week before he was due, so I have 7 weeks off. So, in four years time, I had 19 weeks off for maternity alone. That’s almost 5 months. And that doesn’t include having to leave early for ultrasounds, appointments, school events, kids being sick, etc… It adds up.

      And I get it. I do. Because I bust my ass at work. Where I’m at now, I’ve been there 8 months and I’m pulling in more money than anyone (ANYONE) before me. Ever. But, I’m paid the least. It is what it is. In today’s economy, I’m not going to complain. I have a job. It’s full time. That’s enough.

      • Gillian Colbert

        Okay … so here’s what I have to say on that… as a VP and corporate exec I’ve been responsible for generating budget. At least in my experience, the fringe rate is exactly the same for men or women. My budget didn’t have a male and a female fringe rate … it was 24% across the board. Also, FMLA is unpaid. Almost no companies in this country pay for maternity leave.

        • Right. FMLA is unpaid (unless you have short term disability, which is typically purchased separately). But the fact remains that I’m not there, being productive. Either someone else is covering my workload, or it’s piling up, not getting done. Either way, the company is losing out. Losing money. Because I’m a chick and I’ve got a uterus. Also, and I’m not sure of this, so don’t spank me if I’m wrong (or… on second thought, do spank me if I’m wrong!!), but I’d be willing to bet that mothers miss more work than fathers due to child illnesses…

          • Gillian Colbert

            Due to child illnesses yes, but I had several men take paternity leave under FMLA and/or take off for family illness or their own. So it all balances out. Want to start talking about smokers and what smoke breaks do to the bottom line?

            *spanks just because I love you*

          • “I had several men…” Right. Several. The percentage of men that take paternity leave is minimal. So, while I get what you are saying, I’m gonna be a bitch and say that point is moot, barely even comparable…

            And really, you want to start a debate about smokers, love? I’m a smoker. I’ll take the consequences of smoking. Perhaps if my insurance premiums doubled, quadrupled, etc, perhaps I’d quit. If not, I’d deal with it. Direct consequences of my behavior. I understand that in the long run, I will cost both the company and insurance more money. I’ll be accountable for that… I was going to add something here, but lets just not open that can of worms (and, don’t worry love, it’s nothing against you… just personal decisions that end up costing insurance companies more money…).

          • Gillian Colbert

            Bottom line .. as long as women are forced into the workforce, I stand by equal pay for equal work. It all balances out in the end.

            I was refused insurance coverage for having had a C-section.

            The entire system is fucked and needs an overhaul. I’ve had plenty of slacker men work under me that cost me one hell of a lot more in productivity than a woman who needed to take her kid to the doctor.

          • Damn fucking slacker men…

      • Gillian Colbert

        LOL … I just felt like fucking with you … *smooches*

  10. So Gilian, inspite of being placed in a job you were good at by affirmative action you were still treated unfairly by being paid less and worked harder being more productive. Still think affermitive action is a good thing. The intent is good but the whole premise is flawed. In most cases there is an underlying reason companies engage in AA. Subsidies, policy, public pressure. in the end it is still an attempt to pervert survival of the fittest.
    I deal with an industrial company where EVERYONE except for one warehouse worker is a women. “Son of someone”. Thats affirming they compete in a tough industry buy being good at what they do as a group. Using rules to force change without oversight is a doomed endevour.
    In two weeks I will be supervising a women who won here job through affirmitive action. She admits she is overwhelmed by the work and that she was happier with her previous job. Now I will be mentoring her something that should have happened four years ago. But someone got an atta boy for upping the % and got a promotion on her suffering.

    Cruel

    • Cruel… Agree. Company kick backs. I don’t know how it works up north, but I know here, where I’m at, the higher your percentage of “minorities” the more “incentives” you receive. Now, it’s not about equal anything. It’s about fucking money. No questions asked.

      • Gillian Colbert

        This applies to college degree too. Why do you think a receptionist needs a degree now. It’s called tax incentives for hiring grads. BTW, the government makes billions on student loan interest. It’s all parasitic.

        • Fuck. Babe. I went to a private school. I’ve got three fucking BAs (what in gods name was I thinking). My education is well over 100K. And I’m from a lower-middle class, blue collar family. My dad worked in the steel mill until the year I was born and everything shut down and the whole town went belly up. I put myself through school, with work and loans. And I still owe a fucking butt load. I think, if I were actually making the correct payments, it’d be well over $600 a month. And, my first job in the field… It payed $12.48 an hour. And I moved up quickly, so it wasn’t too bad. But even now, I’m not making that much more than that first amount. How the fuck am I supposed to afford to pay such a high student loan payment, when they don’t pay you shit! It’s a fucking scam. A Bachelor’s degree doesn’t mean shit anymore. That’s all there is to it.

          • Gillian Colbert

            Exactly .. it’s the new high school diploma. Fact remains that I was “advised” that degrees were required for all positions I hired for due to “legal” considerations. It’s all bullshit. I personally stipulated “or equivalent work experience” and hired who I wanted.

            I have three degrees and loans over 90K. My monthly payment would be $500 if I weren’t in school.

          • I get ya. That’s one of reasons I haven’t yet pursued mine (although the deferment would be nice). I can’t justify spending more money on something that is not going to bring me more income to cover the costs of the loans (stupid fucking human services)… And I’ve been offered a TA, with a decent stipend, for a “traditional” grad student. Not for a full-time mother of three. Just not going to cut it…

    • Gillian Colbert

      I agree that the premise of AA is sound … the implementation is flawed. The sad reality is that minorities in this country will not get the same opportunities … PERIOD. I cannot speak to other countries. AA was about leveling a playing field and just like feminism it has become something else all together.

      Here’s another little tidbit. I was a Technology VP, when I had to hire I was constantly being pressured not to hire American workers …why? Because H1B visa immigrants are cheaper to employ.

      I needed a Database Administrator, I could get an H1B visa for about 90K. The same skill set in an American worker cost about 110K. I went with the American … why? I didn’t have to remediate their English or writing abilities which cost me the balance. It’s all perspective and about looking at the entire picture, not just gender.

      The entire system is fucked up. You can’t cherry pick it and then apply the standard to the whole.

    • Gillian Colbert

      P.S. When I say higher performing, I didn’t mean harder working. I meant that I generated more profit and less expense with overall success rate than any other VP.

  11. Love this. You dont know how many times Ive said to someone that I think the womens lib movement helped our society to become as fucked up as it is, and gotten some seriously dirty looks. Dont get me wrong, I do believe that women should have equal rights, I do believe that women should be able to work if they so choose… but that being said, its now become that in order to survive in this society both people have to work, children are raised by daycares and television. I dont know, I just think that it shouldnt be a given that because we are now aloud to work, we have too. I think that when children are young, one parent should be able to stay home with them, I honestly dont care which one, depends on your relationship, to each his own. Im sorry Im rambling, not sure if I even make sense.

    “And you know what, I think this maybe one of the reasons I am so drawn to submission and the D/s lifestyle. Because that is what I want. That is what I crave.”

    I agree with your thoughts there as well. Ive contemplated this and thought this for myself personally too.

    • I’m glad you see where I’m coming from Gypsy. I’m grateful I live in a time when I have a college education, can get on a plane and fly to Hong Kong and don’t need permission, own a house, etc… But, still, women’s lib sure did fuck things up!!

      As always, dear, thanks for reading!!

  12. I love Dirt Road Anthem by Jason Aldean. I’m a lot more country than I realize.

    As for your topic, I’m probably more middle of the road. I’m not a staunch feminist, but I don’t always do bowing to someone well. I blame the strong leo in me; I don’t always submit when I should. That being said, there are times when I want to give it up. Let someone else take care of me, make the money for me, and I’d take care of them. Forcing me to submit when I otherwise wouldn’t. There’s something about submitting and not having to worry about things that’s so appealing.

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  14. Wow. Alot of intellegent thought & debate. I love it!! I have always felt a bit conflicted about feminism. I came from a traditional family. I’m in a profession that is still mainly a woman’s one. Although men in the nursing profession and a higher standard of educational preparation has done alot to elevate nursing. I know I have benefitted from feminism but I also agree with LSAM’s original post. I look forward to the day where I can take care of a man who will in turn be there to bend me over and take me from behind and whisper in my ear that I’m his naughty little slut. Fuck!! *sigh*. So if this makes me a bad feminist, so be it.

    It makes me think back to when I got married and told my sister that I was going to change my last name. She was quite upset with me. “What have feminists been fighting so hard for ?”. She asked me. Well now I have the right to choose what I want to do. Before I didn’t have a choice. And I choose to have the same name as my husband and children. Living in a free country & having free will and a platform to express my thoughts & life choices. How wonderful is that??

    • Ginger… i second guessed taking M’s name, although I did. I’m an only child of an only child, so my maiden name, it died with me. Sad, in a way. But yes, to have this and be someones naughty little girl, your *sigh* said it just about right.

      And yes, lots of intellegent conversation going on. I was overwhelmed! Haha. I understand that my opinion differs from most, but it is what it is! As always babe, thanks for commenting…

  15. *Chucks in two cents and grins sheepishly*

    I think the important thing to remember about women’s lib is that in ‘fucking up’ roles for women who liked being submissive and barefoot in a kitchen while their men went out into the wide world and made money, it unfucked things for women who wanted to go out into the wide world, make money, not have children, not deal with all the housework, and have their men waiting for them when they got home. I am one such woman. And for the Women’s Lib movement to begin and to persist to the point where it changed laws across continents, there must have been many others like me. And in all eras past there have been women and men who did not wish to conform to the roles they were assigned, and in many cultures (my own being one) women’s work was as much in the fields, plowing the family plot with a cow-driven cart as it was cooking. So I’m not sure exactly to which roles you’re referring in the first place because the roles of men and those of women have historically, across cultures, been diverse.
    Also, there are women who are still doing the barefoot and pregnant in a kitchen thing (read: Ann Romney). So it is still possible to do it, given the right circumstances, just as it was possible beforehand, given the right circumstances. So perhaps Women’s Lib didn’t so much go off the beaten path as it did expand it to make room for the rest of women who want to dominate, and men who want to submit, and women and men who want to flip flop between the two.

    *twiddles thumbs and eagerly awaits reply*

    • Dahlia, I’ll take your $0.02 anytime babe! I completely understand where you are coming from, because as much as I am a submissive, I am also a non-conformist. When I discussed roles, I was not so much speaking of work and livelihood, at least not as my original intent… The conversations through the comments, well, they went every-which-way-but-up. What I was trying to get at was more about the power dynamic that used to exist between a man and a woman is no longer naturally occurring in today’s society (and I’m in the US, so understand that is my frame of reference). The roles, whether they were in the home or in the field, are no longer clearly defined. It is “unclear,” to many, where they should be or what they should be doing. Do I become a mother, and focus on my children, or do I earn that MBA and live in NYC? Can I be both? Yes, but can anyone say “burnout”?

      And, this was written as a personal opinion. By no means to I judge anyone for what they choose to do. For, me. I am submissive. There is no doubt. Hand me a paddle or belt, and I’ll bend over, not take it in hand. I have no desire in me to dominate. I have to have so much control in the rest of my life, that in my relationship at home, control is the last thing I want. But if it works for you, that’s awesome. It works for many. I have a few female readers that are Switches, and I’m fascinated by the idea and find it incredibly hot, but it’s just not my cup of tea. Me? Tie me to the bed. Beat my ass. Make me beg.

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